Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo


runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 ... 42  43  44 

 
I choose Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


I'm not sure, but I think you might be right, LactatingGuy, building up the milk ducts will increase lactation. I'm okay with the changes in size, if need be, although I'd be okay without the increase in size, too. If the Milk Fairy gave me the choice, I'd ask for "just milk, please." My research points to fenugreek, blessed thistle, and red clover as good choices. What do you think of Alfalfa Leaf? instead of Red Clover? Or on the other hand, what do you think is a good reason to choose Red Clover? I'm debating between those two, so any thoughts you have on those or others would be helpful.

And this leads to another concern: I really want the effect of the galactogogues and phyto-estrogens, but I don't want it so much as to give up sexual function.

---
Don't be afraid of death;
be afraid of a life unlived.
You don't have to live forever,
you just have to live.
4/10/2012, 11:36 pm Link to this post Send Email to I choose   Send PM to I choose
 
AmericanWarlock Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


quote:

If I knew ahead of time I would have the milk, I would say go ahead, I'll take the C-cups. I'm more concerned that I'll end up halfway, not enough bigger so it was clearly an intentional choice, and no lactation to show for it.



That's the heart of the problem for guys lactating ain't it.

PositionJuxta has a great post about permissions, check it out, and then give yourself the permission to lactate; your mental state makes a difference that is hard to quantify.

If you take all of the herbs that you listed for a enough time all while attempting to lactate, you will more than likely affect your sexual function. Even though your soldier pops to attention when ordered, with your system full of phyto-estrogens you may not have the libido left to give the castle a proper assaulting, if ya know what I mean. emoticon
4/11/2012, 6:06 am Link to this post Send Email to AmericanWarlock   Send PM to AmericanWarlock
 
I choose Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


quote:

PositionJuxta has a great post about permissions



I can't find that. Is it on this thread or another one?

I really liked PositionJuxta's socio-political analysis of the issue - right on target!

LactatingGuy, PaddingtonAbbey, Rastara, you have used herbs. Tell us, who envy your results. At what cost, and what gain, do we admire and emulate your path?

I'm hoping someone says 'oh, no. With (fill in the blank) you don't diminish erections.'
Or if that isn't true it would help to hear it, and know what my choices are.

---
Don't be afraid of death;
be afraid of a life unlived.
You don't have to live forever,
you just have to live.
4/11/2012, 12:54 pm Link to this post Send Email to I choose   Send PM to I choose
 
AmericanWarlock Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


http://blandofmilkandhoney.runboard.com/t711

Here's the link on permissions.

Enjoy.
4/11/2012, 2:10 pm Link to this post Send Email to AmericanWarlock   Send PM to AmericanWarlock
 
Rastara Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


Got a new job, so haven't had internet access for awhile, hence my strange absence.

Okay, first, I need to answer I choose here, because he seems to be very nervous...

I've been "flying solo" for as long as I've been working at lactating. I am already a little underprivlaged when it comes to testosterone and such. My appitite just isn't as large as some others. In fact, my ex had a much larger one that I did. So understand everything I have to say here has that caveat that it isn't where it might be for another guy as the starting point. That said, I'm not dead, so...

When I started without any herbs, my Libeto doubled. No joke, DOUBLED. I noticed a slight decrease with Goat's Rue, but that could have been due to my situation at the time. Goat's rue really tasted horrid in my opinion. At the time of the Goat's Rue I was also taking Mother's Milk tea and Fenugreek. I did not notice any libeto changes under those.

For performance, I'm afraid I have some bad news. My ability to last went down. There was normal if not increased in stiffness, but it all just felt so sensual that a stray blanket or gust of wind or drop of water would probably cut my normal time down by a bit. Not too horrible of a thing when you are by yourself, but I can imagine that this could be quite a problem. This was true under all the different herbs. Fortunatly if you have started down this road you've probably found ways to ensure that the other side is satisfied in a increased timeframe as well.

For volume, I noticed no changes.

Now we'll talk about progress. First of all, no changes. I've cut out all the herbs because I was frustrated with the lack of progress on them. They didn't seem to do me any good either way. My pumping is down to twice a day. Nothing new to report. I'm really thinking seriously about trying some of the other stuff, like dom, even though I heard it shouldn't work in theory. Not having a partner definately hurts me on this. It's demoralizing and frustrating. I'm not even sure progress is being made, because it's the same thing day after day with no change.

Of course I am still keeping my 2ce a day anyway. It takes years for female breasts to mature. Mine might be slowly maturing as time goes on and I just can't tell. Either way, I think I'll probably experiment with dom in a month or two.

Also, I know all about comparing yourself to other guys and wondering about if they are lactating. It's taught me that there are some really large breasted men out there, so anything short of a C cup, don't worry about being noticed. Even if they think you are wonky they probably won't bring it up anyway. Not socially acceptable to comment about a guy's knockers.
4/13/2012, 7:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to Rastara   Send PM to Rastara
 
I choose Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


Hey Hello Rastara, Glad you're back. And thank you for inspiring us to candid, intelligent communication. Reading your first post, and later ones, came just in time for me, making choices and all. Sharing info and progress here is valuable to each of us. I am rooting for your success, Rastara, and between all of us we can save time experimenting individually.

So my latest view is that it needs to be at least a two-step process. Growing alveoli and ducts, then stimulating lactation. I'm no where near sure, but this is the picture that I am increasingly seeing as likely. I found this quote from Dr.Jim on a different thread:
quote:

Re: Should I try progesterone cream?

What Progesterone cream will do is to temporarily shift your breasts back from lactation to making more alveoli. Then when lactation resumes after you stop the cream it will be greater. The breasts can only do one thing at a time; first they build the duct system under the influence of Estrogen, this also stimulates the fat development and overall breast size. Next Progesterone stimulates the alveoli to develop on the duct system like a cluster of grapes on the stem system. Then thirdly, the alveoli, when present, can respond to Prolactin and go into the job of making milk. If you want to do this then temporarily stop trying to raise your Prolactin with stimulation and load up on the Progesterone as much as you can for 4 to 6 weeks. Slather it on the breasts twice a day and on the chest, abdomen as well if you want. Try to be "Progesterone dominant" during this time. Then stop and resume your pumping etc. Then you want to get your Prolactin up as much as possible. Those new alveoli will get turned on and try to do something!

DrJim
4/3/2012, 4:55 pm



LactatingGuy said he had 6-8 ounces per squeezing, making us all envious! It sounds like his results came from phyto-estrogens followed by galactogogues. I am hoping he will come back on here and confirm, but I think some of the effects of those herbs are undesirable, to me. But I am in conflict because some of the effects, the above-mentioned number of ounces, are very desirable to me.
LactatingGuy, or anybody else that might know, here is a question for you: after using those herbs, getting those results, could you stop the herbs, go back to having erections and still keep the milk coming ?!?!
Maybe I should have called that a desperate hope, rather than a rational, scientific question.

---
Don't be afraid of death;
be afraid of a life unlived.
You don't have to live forever,
you just have to live.
4/13/2012, 10:11 pm Link to this post Send Email to I choose   Send PM to I choose
 
Rastara Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


On those herbs, I had no problems getting errections. Simulation of the nipples had the opposite effect, even. Some of the hormones released in this process generate arosal. I do not believe you will have any dysfunction in getting it up.

Now understand I haven't used Progesterone Cream nor have I used domperidone. What I have used is Goat's Rue, Fenugreek, and Mother's Milk tea. No problems with them.

If you can live with increased nipple size and increased breast size, you will be fine. You probably do not have to grow very much either, although I haven't been successful so I don't know.

I read that quote last night and I'm thinking maybe 2-3 weeks of Progesterone cream with domperidone at the end might be something to try, keeping my 2ce a day going under the cream. I haven't decided yet, as I want to get this without medications, but we'll see. I am curious as to exactly how Lactating Guy did it as well. I know that I sometimes smell milk and others have smelt it on me before too, and I know that I once was at "sparkles", so I know it's possible, but what was it that I was doing right before? Hard to tell, I wonder if the flange size of my pump might not be a factor. I'm currently using 21mm. Maybe I'll try a few weeks of 26mm.
4/14/2012, 7:28 am Link to this post Send Email to Rastara   Send PM to Rastara
 
AmericanWarlock Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


Glad to have you back Rastara.

Congrats on the new job, and I'm glad to hear you have found the time to continue your efforts. But with a new job comes stress and from that cortisol which suppresses your reproductive system and by extension the mammary glands. This may be a factor in your recent plateau.

From my own experience I believe I can identify another one. My partner and I started our first suckling sessions on valentine's day, twice a day 10 minutes per breast. The effects of her ministrations were immediate. by the third day I was producing colostrum, and by the fourth day I was "orgasming" into her mouth as she put it. The milk that I was producing caused her hands and feet to become warm, and forced her to go to sleep for about 20 minutes after each session. I observed this physiological response in her on three different occasions; the most likely cause being the production of a small amount of hindmilk. The effects that we saw in her really excited us, and compelled us to continue, but then life intervened, my cortisol soared, gumming up the hormonal mix. This on top of a reduced appetite due to the prolactin spike, left me hormonally depleted, we stopped, and I researched. Could it be, at this time, that you have been trying for so long that your body can only respond weakly to the signals that you are generating by pumping every day, perhaps a break of a week or two during which time you can recharge and reload your hormonal reserves would help. Just a thought.

During our experiment I had a slight enlargement of the breast, but I had far more development in my nipple and the milk sack behind. After we stopped my research revealed the importance of progesterone, a three day regime of just a dab on each nipple and areola seemed to increase my nipples further with swelling and soreness felt in the rest of the breast mass, most likely due to alveoli development which of course was the point of using the progesterone.

Our second attempt has been filled with starts and stops, and my breast feel far more reactive and responsive to any and all stimulation, but we need to improve our discipline if I am going to get anywhere. I probably will get a TENS unit soon to allow me to stimulate on a more regular schedule, especially when I'm out and about.

I'll keep you abreast emoticon of any developments.
4/14/2012, 9:34 am Link to this post Send Email to AmericanWarlock   Send PM to AmericanWarlock
 
I choose Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


Here are some quotes from Dr. Jim. He is answering Q's about Tens Units and getting pregnant while lactating, but in the process elucidates some things we may need to know:

quote:

The secret to achieving lactation is FREQUENT stimulation of the breasts not prolonged stimulation. The pituitary puts out a signal to the ovaries many times during the day. Each time the breasts are stimulated one of those signals will be blocked and prevented. If enough of those signals are prevented Estrogen will not rise and Prolactin will be released working on the breasts. Typically when a woman is breast feeding a baby the baby feeds about every 2 hours with the exception of a little longer spells during the night. This every 2 hours frequency is what keeps her lactating and her ovaries supressed from activity with the subsequent return of her menstrual cycle.

DrJim
4/3/2012, 4:27 pm


quote:

Re: tens unit

You ask can you get pregnant while lactating? If you ask women who breastfed babies after giving birth the answer is of course yes, it happens all the time. During pregnancy the hormones Estrogen and Progesterone are about 20 times higher than normal- very high. All this hormone is produced in the placenta. With the birth process and delivery of the placenta this hormone source is removed and Estrogen and Progesterone levels plummet to almost nothing- lower than normal levels. Estrogen inhibits Prolactin release so normally during pregnancy, although the breasts are stimulated by the high hormone levels lactation does not occur. After delivery with the Estrogen inhibition removed Prolactin goes high and the milk comes in with a bang about day 3. Woman breast feeds every 2 hours which stimulates Prolactin and Oxytocin release and inhibits Estrogen and the Ovaries. As long as the woman breast feeds every 2 hours the ovaries will stay quiet, not ovulate and menses will not occur. Many women who breast feed may not resume menses for as long as a year. When the child starts weaning the frequency of nursing decreases to say every 4 hours. This is not frequent enough to fully inhibit the ovaries and at some point menses and cycling resumes. Breast feeding is used as a pregnancy prevention method in some cultures but it is rather unreliable since the women tend to get pregnant again about the time the present child is weaning.

How does this relate to inducing lactation? All of the above things tend to happen to some extent and a much lesser intensity. Lets say a woman who is young and cycling normally begins intensively stimulating her breasts every 2 hours. The first thing that happens is completely unseen- the Pituitary is inhibited in stimulating the ovaries. Through the first monthly cycle, although the breasts don't seem to show any responses, the ovaries don't produce as much Estrogen. The following menses is lighter than normal- an excellent early sign of positive response. Perhaps the next month the woman may fail to ovulate or may not have a menses. If this occurs then Estrogen is low enough to allow Prolactin to be released in significant amounts and significant breast changes will be occurring with the beginning of lactation etc.

Quick summary; Inducing lactation may cause menses to be lighter than normal, shorter than normal, may stop altogether, but you may ovulate and get pregnant in spite of no menses- (can't count on it), it may inhibit ovulation and thereby reduce fertility. If desiring to get pregnant it may require stopping lactation induction, stimulation.

DrJim
4/3/2012, 8:37 pm



Okay, not every part of that applies to our quest, but I'm starting to see a pattern. I'm just gonna say this off the top of my head, so correct me if anything is obviously incomplete.
emoticon Duct-building Phase - phyto-estrogens for about a month. And anti-testosterone Saw Palmetto
We're not starting from the same place as the Ladies, so we need to get to the start line.
emoticon Alveoli-building Phase - Progesterone cream on aureola 4-6 weeks, Dr. Jim says. I have read about Goat's Rue building alveoli. But also that it encourages lactation. Do galactogogues come in here? or the next phase. Help me think this through. I'm hoping in this phase erections come back, as I expect they will be supressed by the estrogen phase. I won't mind giving them up for a month, as long as I am sure they come back.
emoticon Prolactin/Oxytocin Lactation Phase - Pumping and Galactogogues pumping will likely be effective when the body is brought to the right place first. Galactogogues like fenugreek or goat's rue come in at this time, if not in the previous phase.

Okay, I am going to keep re-publishing this program on this thread as we refine it. Please help me make changes to improve it. Any ideas? details? problems?
Question: can Dom Perignon play any part in here? which phase? As a pharmaceutical, rather than herb, I would expect a strong effect, which I would welcome. If it would be effective at all, which we're not sure of, for males.


---
Don't be afraid of death;
be afraid of a life unlived.
You don't have to live forever,
you just have to live.
4/14/2012, 9:43 pm Link to this post Send Email to I choose   Send PM to I choose
 
AmericanWarlock Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info


Global user

Reply | Quote
Re: Male Lactation


These hormone levels need to be peaked in the following order:
E2 ==> PE ==> PRL ==> Oxy
Each hormone prepares the breast in their turn to lactate and more importantly each hormone seems to encourage growth of the receptors for next hormone in the chain, E2 causes PE receptors in the breast to increase, PE then causes PRL receptors to increase; I am unsure whether PRL improves Oxy receptors and in turn Oxy increasing E2 receptors, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that the entire process is a neat and tidy circle.

Here's the best method I have found so far to increase each hormone in turn:
1) Estrogen: Estradiol cream

2) Progesterone: Progesterone cream

3) Prolactin: L-argine (amino acid building block of prolactin) and stimulation

4) Oxytocin: Chocolate (eat 1/2 hour before stimulation to promote significant oxytocin spikes).

I am not sold on using man-made creams, I would prefer to use herbs for each stage, but ultimately I will limit my supplementation choices to legal, cheap and readily available chemicals that do not require a prescription.
4/15/2012, 8:00 am Link to this post Send Email to AmericanWarlock   Send PM to AmericanWarlock
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 ... 42  43  44 



You are not logged in (login)